Sāriputta and Kotthita (4)

Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
Proofed against and modified in accordance with the revised edition at dhammatalks.org
Provenance, terms and conditons

[1][pts][bodh] On one occasion Ven. Sāriputta and Ven. Mahā Koṭṭhita were staying near Vārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana.

Then Ven. Sāriputta, emerging from his seclusion in the evening, went to Ven. Mahā Koṭṭhita and exchanged courteous greetings with him.

After an exchange of friendly greetings and courtesies, he sat to one side.

As he was sitting there, he said to Ven. Mahā Koṭṭhita, "Now then, friend Koṭṭhita, does the Tathāgata exist after death?"

"That, friend, has not been declared by the Blessed One:

'The Tathāgata exists after death.'"

"Well then, friend Koṭṭhita, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?"

"Friend, that too has not been declared by the Blessed One:

'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'"

"Then does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?"

"That has not been declared by the Blessed One:

'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'"

"Well then, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?"

"That too has not been declared by the Blessed One:

'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"Now, friend Koṭṭhita, when asked if the Tathāgata exists after death, you say, 'That has not been declared by the Blessed One: "The Tathāgata exists after death."'

When asked if the Tathāgata does not exist after death... both exists and does not exist after death... neither exists nor does not exist after death, you say, 'That too has not been declared by the Blessed One: "The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death."'

Now, what is the cause, what is the reason, why that has not been declared by the Blessed One?"

"For one who loves form, who is fond of form, who cherishes form, who does not know or see, as it has come to be, the cessation of form, there occurs the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'

"For one who loves feeling....

"For one who loves perception....

"For one who loves fabrication....

"For one who loves consciousness, who is fond of consciousness, who cherishes consciousness, who does not know or see, as it has come to be, the cessation of consciousness, there occurs the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'

"But for one who doesn't love form, who isn't fond of form, who doesn't cherish form, who knows and sees, as it has come to be, the cessation of form, the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' doesn't occur.

"For one who doesn't love feeling....

"For one who doesn't love perception....

"For one who doesn't love fabrication....

"For one who doesn't love consciousness, who isn't fond of consciousness, who doesn't cherish consciousness, who knows and sees, as it has come to be, the cessation of consciousness, the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' doesn't occur.

"This is the cause, this is the reason, why that has not been declared by the Blessed One."

"But, my friend, would there another line of reasoning, in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One?"

"There would, my friend.

"For one who loves becoming, who is fond of becoming, who cherishes becoming, who does not know or see, as it has come to be, the cessation of becoming, there occurs the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'

"But for one who doesn't love becoming, who isn't fond of becoming, who doesn't cherish becoming, who knows and sees, as it has come to be, the cessation of becoming, the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' doesn't occur.

"This, too, is a line of reasoning in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One."

"But, my friend, would there another line of reasoning, in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One?"

"There would, my friend.

"For one who loves clinging/sustenance, who is fond of clinging/sustenance, who cherishes clinging/sustenance, who does not know or see, as it has come to be, the cessation of clinging/sustenance, there occurs the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'

"But for one who doesn't love clinging/sustenance, who isn't fond of clinging/sustenance, who doesn't cherish clinging/sustenance, who knows and sees, as it has come to be, the cessation of clinging/sustenance, the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' doesn't occur.

"This, too, is a line of reasoning in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One."

"But, my friend, would there another line of reasoning, in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One?"

"There would, my friend.

"For one who loves craving, who is fond of craving, who cherishes craving, who does not know or see, as it has come to be, the cessation of craving, there occurs the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'

"But for one who doesn't love craving, who isn't fond of craving, who doesn't cherish craving, who knows and sees, as it has come to be, the cessation of craving, the thought, 'The Tathāgata exists after death' or 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' doesn't occur.

"This, too, is a line of reasoning in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One."

"But, my friend, would there another line of reasoning, in line with which that has not been declared by the Blessed One?"

"Now, what more do you want, friend Sāriputta?

When a monk has been freed from the classification of craving, there exists no cycle for describing him."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 4. Saḷāyatana Vagga 44. Avyākata Saṃyutta

Sutta 6

Catuttha Sāriputta-Koṭṭhika (or Ārāma) Suttaṃ

Sāriputta and Kotthita (4)

Saṃyutta Nikāya
4. Saḷāyatana Vagga
44. Avyākata Saṃyutta