Majjhima Nikāya
II. Majjhima-Paṇṇāsa
3. Paribbājaka Vagga

The Middle Length Sayings
II. The Middle Fifty Discourses
3. The Division on Wanderers

Sutta 77

Mahā Sakuludāyi Suttaṃ

Greater Discourse to Sakuludāyin

Translated from the Pali by I.B. Horner, O.B.E., M.A.
Associate of Newham College, Cambridge
First Published in 1954

[1][chlm][ntbb][upal][pts] THUS have I heard:

At one time the Lord was staying near Rājagaha
in the Bamboo Grove
at the squirrels' feeding place.^[1]

Now at that time
a number of very celebrated wanderers,
such as Anugāra,^[2]
Varadhara
and the wanderer Sakuludāyin,
and other celebrated wanderers,
were staying in the wanderers' park
at the peacocks' feeding place.

Then the Lord, having dressed in the morning,
taking his bowl and robe,
entered Rājagaha for almsfood.

Then it occurred to the Lord:

"It is too early to walk for almsfood in Rājagaha.

Suppose I were to approach the wanderers' park,
the peacocks' feeding place
and the wanderer Sakuludāyin?"

Then the Lord approached the peacocks' feeding place
in the wanderers' park.

Now at that time the wanderer Sakuludāyin
was sitting down with the great company of wanderers
shouting out with a loud noise,
a great noise,
talking various kinds of inferior talk
that is to say:
talk on kings,
thieves,
great ministers,
armies,
fears,
battles,
food,
drink,
clothes,
beds,
garlands,
scents,
relations,
vehicles,
villages,
market towns,
towns,
the country,
women,
heroes,
streets,
wells,
those departed before,
talk of diversity,
speculation about the world,
speculation about the sea,
talk about becoming or not becoming
thus or thus.^[3]

The wanderer Sakuludāyin saw the Lord coming in the distance;
seeing him,
he called his own company to order, saying:

"Good sirs, let there be little noise;
do not, good sirs, make a noise;
this is the recluse Gotama who is coming.

The recluse Gotama wishes for little noise,
is trained to little noise,
praises little noise.

So he may consider approaching
if he knows that this is a company of little noise."

Then these wanderers fell silent.

Then the Lord approached the wanderer Sakuludāyin.

The wanderer Sakuludāyin spoke thus to the Lord:

"Let the revered Gotama come,
there is a welcome for the revered Gotama;
it is long since the revered Gotama made this opportunity!
that is to say for coming here.

Let the revered Gotama sit down,
this seat is ready."

Then the Lord sat down on the seat that was ready.

And the wanderer Sakuludāyin,
having taken a low seat,
sat down at a respectful distance.

The Lord spoke thus to the wanderer Sakuludāyin
as he was sitting down at a respectful distance:

"What is the talk
for which you are now gathered together here, Udāyin?

[204] And what was your talk that was interrupted?"

"Let be that talk, revered sir,
for which we are now gathered together here.

It will not be difficult for the Lord to hear this talk later.

Some time ago,^[4] revered sir,
when divers members of other sects,
recluses and brahmans,
were gathered together
and were sitting down in the debating hall,^[5]
this chance conversation arose:

'Indeed it is profitable for the people of Aṇga-Magadha,
indeed it is well gotten by the people of Aṇga-Magadha
that these leaders in religious life,
heads of companies,
heads of groups,
teachers of groups,
well known,
famous founders of sects,
held in high repute by the manyfolk,^[6]
have come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This Pūraṇa Kassapa is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This Makkhali Gosāla too is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This Ajita of the hair-blanket too is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This Pakudha Kaccāyana too is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son too is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This Nātaputta the Jain too is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

This recluse Gotama too is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk;
he has come to Rājagaha for the rains-residence.

Now of these lords,
heads of companies,
heads of groups,
teachers of groups,
well known,
famous founders of sects,
held in high repute by the manyfolk,
which is revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples?

And how do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence?

Some of those who were there spoke thus:

'This Pūraṇa Kassapa
is the head of a company,
head of a group,
teacher of a group,
well known,
a famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

But he is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting him,
live in dependence on Pūraṇa Kassapa.

Once upon a time Pūraṇa Kassapa was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

But a certain disciple of his let it be heard:

"Do not, good sirs, ask Pūraṇa Kassapa about this matter;
he does not know about it,
we know about it.

Ask us about this matter,
we can explain it to the good sirs."

Once upon a time Pūraṇa Kassapa,
with outstretched arms [205] and wailing,
did not get the chance (to say^[7]):

"Let the good sirs be quiet;
do not,
good sirs,
make a noise.

These are not asking the good sirs,
they are asking us,
we will explain to them.

"Then many of Pūraṇa Kassapa's disciples,
having refuted him,
on seceding,^[8] said:

"You do not understand^[9] this Dhamma and discipline,
I understand this Dhamma and discipline.

How can you understand this Dhamma and discipline?

You are faring along wrongly,
I am faring along rightly.

There is sense in what I say,
no sense in what you say.

You said at the end
what should have been said at the beginning,
and said at the beginning
what should have been said at the end.

Your method is reversed,^[10]
you are refuted,^[11]
you are caught out,^[12]
go away and think out your words,^[13]
or unravel them if you can."

So Pūraṇa Kassapa is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence on Pūraṇa Kassapa.

On the contrary, Pūraṇa Kassapa is reviled with abuse
for his behaviour.'^[14]

Some spoke thus:

'This Makkhali Gosāla too
is the head of a company,
head of a group,
teacher of a group,
well known,
a famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

But he is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting him,
live in dependence on Makkhali Gosāla.

Once upon a time Makkhali Gosāla was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

But a certain disciple of his let it be heard:

"Do not, good sirs, ask Makkhali Gosāla about this matter;
he does not know about it,
we know about it.

Ask us about this matter,
we can explain it to the good sirs."

Once upon a time Makkhali Gosāla,
with outstretched arms and wailing,
did not get the chance (to say):

"Let the good sirs be quiet;
do not,
good sirs,
make a noise.

These are not asking the good sirs,
they are asking us,
we will explain to them."

Then many of Makkhali Gosāla's disciples,
having refuted him,
on seceding, said:

"You do not understand this Dhamma and discipline,
I understand this Dhamma and discipline.

How can you understand this Dhamma and discipline?

You are faring along wrongly,
I am faring along rightly.

There is sense in what I say,
no sense in what you say.

You said at the end
what should have been said at the beginning,
and said at the beginning
what should have been said at the end.

Your method is reversed,
you are refuted,
you are caught out,
go away and think out your words,
or unravel them if you can."

So Makkhali Gosāla is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence on Makkhali Gosāla.

On the contrary, Makkhali Gosāla is reviled with abuse
for his behaviour.'

Some spoke thus:

This Ajita of the hair blanket too
is the head of a company,
head of a group,
teacher of a group,
well known,
a famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

But he is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting him,
live in dependence on Ajita of the hair blanket.

Once upon a time Ajita of the hair blanket was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

But a certain disciple of his let it be heard:

"Do not, good sirs, ask Ajita of the hair blanket about this matter;
he does not know about it,
we know about it.

Ask us about this matter,
we can explain it to the good sirs."

Once upon a time Ajita of the hair blanket,
with outstretched arms and wailing,
did not get the chance (to say):

"Let the good sirs be quiet;
do not,
good sirs,
make a noise.

These are not asking the good sirs,
they are asking us,
we will explain to them."

Then many of Ajita of the hair blanket disciples,
having refuted him,
on seceding, said:

"You do not understand this Dhamma and discipline,
I understand this Dhamma and discipline.

How can you understand this Dhamma and discipline?

You are faring along wrongly,
I am faring along rightly.

There is sense in what I say,
no sense in what you say.

You said at the end
what should have been said at the beginning,
and said at the beginning
what should have been said at the end.

Your method is reversed,
you are refuted,
you are caught out,
go away and think out your words,
or unravel them if you can."

So Ajita of the hair blanket is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence on Ajita of the hair blanket.

On the contrary, Ajita of the hair blanket is reviled with abuse
for his behaviour.'

Some spoke thus:

This Pakudha Kaccāyana too
is the head of a company,
head of a group,
teacher of a group,
well known,
a famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

But he is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting him,
live in dependence on Pakudha Kaccāyana.

Once upon a time Pakudha Kaccāyana was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

But a certain disciple of his let it be heard:

"Do not, good sirs, ask Pakudha Kaccāyana about this matter;
he does not know about it,
we know about it.

Ask us about this matter,
we can explain it to the good sirs."

Once upon a time Pakudha Kaccāyana,
with outstretched arms and wailing,
did not get the chance (to say):

"Let the good sirs be quiet;
do not,
good sirs,
make a noise.

These are not asking the good sirs,
they are asking us,
we will explain to them."

Then many of Pakudha Kaccāyana's disciples,
having refuted him,
on seceding, said:

"You do not understand this Dhamma and discipline,
I understand this Dhamma and discipline.

How can you understand this Dhamma and discipline?

You are faring along wrongly,
I am faring along rightly.

There is sense in what I say,
no sense in what you say.

You said at the end
what should have been said at the beginning,
and said at the beginning
what should have been said at the end.

Your method is reversed,
you are refuted,
you are caught out,
go away and think out your words,
or unravel them if you can."

So Pakudha Kaccāyana is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence on Pakudha Kaccāyana.

On the contrary, Pakudha Kaccāyana is reviled with abuse
for his behaviour.'

Some spoke thus:

This Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son too
is the head of a company,
head of a group,
teacher of a group,
well known,
a famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

But he is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting him,
live in dependence on Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son.

Once upon a time Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

But a certain disciple of his let it be heard:

"Do not, good sirs, ask Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son about this matter;
he does not know about it,
we know about it.

Ask us about this matter,
we can explain it to the good sirs."

Once upon a time Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son,
with outstretched arms and wailing,
did not get the chance (to say):

"Let the good sirs be quiet;
do not,
good sirs,
make a noise.

These are not asking the good sirs,
they are asking us,
we will explain to them."

Then many of Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son's disciples,
having refuted him,
on seceding, said:

"You do not understand this Dhamma and discipline,
I understand this Dhamma and discipline.

How can you understand this Dhamma and discipline?

You are faring along wrongly,
I am faring along rightly.

There is sense in what I say,
no sense in what you say.

You said at the end
what should have been said at the beginning,
and said at the beginning
what should have been said at the end.

Your method is reversed,
you are refuted,
you are caught out,
go away and think out your words,
or unravel them if you can."

So Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence on Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son.

On the contrary, Sañjaya Belaṭṭhi's son is reviled with abuse
for his behaviour.'

Some spoke thus:

This Nātaputta the Jain too
is the head of a company,
head of a group,
teacher of a group,
well known,
a famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

But he is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting him,
live in dependence on Nātaputta the Jain.

Once upon a time Nātaputta the Jain was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

But a certain disciple of his let it be heard:

"Do not, good sirs, ask Nātaputta the Jain about this matter;
he does not know about it,
we know about it.

Ask us about this matter,
we can explain it to the good sirs."

Once upon a time Nātaputta the Jain,
with outstretched arms and wailing,
did not get the chance (to say):

"Let the good sirs be quiet;
do not,
good sirs,
make a noise.

These are not asking the good sirs,
they are asking us,
we will explain to them."

Then many of Nātaputta the Jain's disciples,
having refuted him,
on seceding, said:

"You do not understand this Dhamma and discipline,
I understand this Dhamma and discipline.

How can you understand this Dhamma and discipline?

You are faring along wrongly,
I am faring along rightly.

There is sense in what I say,
no sense in what you say.

You said at the end
what should have been said at the beginning,
and said at the beginning
what should have been said at the end.

Your method is reversed,
you are refuted,
you are caught out,
go away and think out your words,
or unravel them if you can."

So Nātaputta the Jain is not revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
nor do disciples,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence on Nātaputta the Jain.

On the contrary, Nātaputta the Jain is reviled with abuse
for his behaviour.'

Some spoke thus:

'This recluse Gotama is the head of a company,
head of a group,
the teacher of a group,
he is well known,
the famous founder of a sect,
held in high repute by the manyfolk.

He is revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples;
and disciples,
revering and respecting the recluse Gotama,
live in dependence on him.

Once upon a time
the recluse Gotama was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly.

Then a certain disciple of the recluse Gotama coughed.

A fellow Brahma-farer touched him with his knee
and said:

"Let the venerable one be quiet;
let the venerable one make no noise.

The Teacher, our Lord,
is teaching Dhamma."

[206] At the time when the recluse Gotama was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly,
there was the sound
neither of expectoration
nor of coughing
among his disciples.^[15]

Any group of people
who were waiting
were ready for him,
thinking:

"We will hear that Dhamma
that the Lord will teach us."

It is as though a man
at a crossing on a high road
might press out a little pure honey,^[16]
and any group of people who were waiting
might be ready for him.

Even so at the time
when the recluse Gotama was teaching Dhamma
to an innumerable assembly,
there was the sound
neither of expectoration
nor of coughing
among his disciples.

Any group of people
who were waiting
were ready for him,
thinking:

"We will hear that Dhamma
that the Lord will teach us."

And those disciples of the recluse Gotama who,
quarrelling with fellow Brahma-farers
and disavowing the training,
return to the secular life,
even these are speakers in praise of the Teacher,
they are speakers in praise of Dhamma
and speakers in praise of the Order.

They censure only themselves,
they do not censure others,
but say:

"It is we ourselves that are unfortunate,
it is we that are of little merit,
in that we,
although we have gone forth thus
in this Dhamma and discipline
that are well taught,
are unable
for as long as life lasts
to fare the Brahma-faring
wholly complete,
wholly purified."

These, becoming monastery attendants
or lay-disciples,
live undertaking the five rules of training.

Thus it is that the recluse Gotama is revered,
respected,
esteemed,
honoured by disciples,
and that disciples,
revering and respecting the recluse Gotama,
live in dependence on him.'"

"But how many things do you behold in me, Udāyin,
for which my disciples revere,
respect,
esteem and honour me,
and revering and respecting,
live in dependence (on me)?"

"I, revered sir, behold five things
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

What are the five?

Revered sir, the Lord eats little
and speaks in praise of eating little.

That the Lord eats little
and speaks in praise of eating little,
this is the first thing
that I, revered sir,
behold in the Lord
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, revered sir,
the Lord is contented
with any kind of robe-material
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of robe-material.

This is the second thing
that I, revered sir,
behold in the Lord
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

[207] And again, revered sir,
the Lord is contented
with any kind of almsfood
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of almsfood.

This is the third thing
that I, revered sir,
behold in the Lord
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, revered sir,
the Lord is contented
with any kind of lodgings
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of lodgings.

This is the fourth thing
that I, revered sir,
behold in the Lord
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, revered sir,
the Lord is aloof^[17]
and speaks in praise of aloofness.

That the Lord is aloof
and speaks in praise of aloofness,
this is the fifth
that I, revered sir,
behold in the Lord
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

These, revered sir,
are the five things
I behold in the Lord
for which disciples revere,
respect,
and honour the Lord,
and, revering and respecting,
live in dependence."

"'The recluse Gotama eats little
and speaks in praise of eating little" -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
there are disciples of mine, Udāyin,
who live on a saucer of food
and on half a saucer of food
and on a fruit of the vilva tree
and on half a fruit of the vilva tree.

But I, Udāyin,
sometimes eat to the full of this bowl,
and I eat more than that.^[18]

'The recluse Gotama eats little
and speaks in praise of eating little' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
it would not be, Udāyin,
those of my disciples
who live on a saucer of food
and on half a saucer of food
and on a fruit of the vilva tree
and on half a fruit of the vilva tree
who would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me
for this behaviour^[19] (of mine) and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence.

'The recluse Gotama is content
with any kind of robe-material
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of robe-material' -
if it were for this, Udayin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
there are disciples of mine, Udāyin,
who are wearers of rag-robes
taken from a dust-heap,
and who wear robes that are worn thin;
collecting shreds of [208] cloth from a cemetery,
a rubbish heap
or shop
and having made up an outer cloak,
they wear it.

I, Udāyin,
sometimes wear householders' robe-material,
strengthening it if it is worn thin
with thread from the white gourd.

'The recluse Gotama is content
with any kind of robe-material
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of robe-material' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
it would not be, Udāyin,
those of my disciples
who are wearers of rag-robes taken from a dust-heap,
and who wear robes that are worn thin;
or those who,
collecting shreds of cloth from a cemetery,
a rubbish heap
or shop
and who, having made up an outer cloak,
wear it,
who would revere,
respect,
esteem,
honour me for this behaviour (of mine) and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence..

'The recluse Gotama is content
with any kind of almsfood
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of almsfood' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
there are disciples of mine, Udāyin,
who eat only what is received into the begging bowl,^[20]
who walk on an uninterrupted alms-round,
pleased with scraps of food;^[21] these,
having gone in amid the houses,
even if offered a seat
do not consent (to accept it).

But I, Udāyin,
sometimes eat
where I am invited:
rice,
rice-gruel,
rice from which the black grains have been removed,^[22]
a variety of curries,
a variety of condiments.

'The recluse Gotama is content
with any kind of almsfood
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of almsfood' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
it would not be, Udāyin,
those of my disciples
who eat only what is received into the begging-bowl,
who walk on an uninterrupted alms-round,
pleased with scrap of food,
and who, having gone in amid the houses,
even if offered a seat
do not consent (to accept it),
who would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me for this behaviour (of mine) and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence.

'The recluse Gotama is content
with any kind of lodging
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of lodging' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
there are disciples [209] of mine, Udāyin,
who live at the roots of trees,
in the open air,
and who for eight months
do not go under a roof.

But I, Udāyin,
sometimes stay in gabled houses,
smeared inside and out,
sheltered from the winds,
having door-bolts that fasten
and windows that close.

'The recluse Gotama is content
with any kind of lodging
and speaks in praise of content
with any kind of lodging' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
it would not be, Udāyin, those of my disciples
who live at the roots of trees,
in the open air,
and who for eight months
do not go under a roof,
who would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me for this behaviour (of mine) and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence.

'The recluse Gotama is aloof
and speaks in praise of aloofness' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
there are disciples of mine, Udāyin,
who have gone to remote lodgings
in the forest and who,
having plunged into remote lodgings
in forest and jungle,
stay there;
these return to the midst of the Order every half-month
for the recitation of the Obligations.^[23]

But I, Udāyin,
sometimes stay crowded round by monks and nuns,
men and women lay-disciples,
by kings
and kings' chief ministers,
by leaders and disciples of other sects.'

'The recluse Gotama is aloof
and speaks in praise of aloofness' -
if it were for this, Udāyin,
that disciples would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence,
it would not be, Udāyin,
those of my disciples
who have gone to remote lodgings in the forest
and who, having plunged into remote lodgings
in forest and jungle,
stay there,
but who return to the midst of the Order
every half-month for the recitation of the Obligations,
who would revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me for this behaviour (of mine) and,
revering and respecting,
would live in dependence.

It is thus, Udāyin -
for these five ways of behaving -
that disciples do not revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

But there are, Udāyin,
five other things
for which disciples revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

What are the five?

As to this, Udāyin,
disciples of mine
admire the higher morality,
and think:

'The recluse Gotama is of moral habit,
he is possessed of the most excellent body of moral habit.'

Inas- [210] much, Udāyin,
as disciples of mine
admire the higher morality,
and think:
'The recluse Gotama is of moral habit,
he is possessed of the most excellent body of moral habit.'

This is the first thing, Udāyin,
for which disciples of mine revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, Udāyin, disciples of mine
admire the surpassing know-ledge-and-vision,
and think:

'When the recluse Gotama says:

"I know, I see" -

it is because he does know,
does see.

The recluse Gotama teaches Dhamma
from super-knowledge,
not without super-knowledge;
the recluse Gotama teaches Dhamma
that has a causal basis^[24],
not without a causal basis;
the recluse Gotama teaches Dhamma
that is convincing,^[25] not unconvincing.'

Inasmuch, Udāyin,
as disciples of mine admire
the surpassing knowledge-and-vision,
and think:
'When the recluse Gotama says:
"I know, I see" -
it is because he does know,
does see.

The recluse Gotama teaches Dhamma
from super-knowledge,
not without super-knowledge;
the recluse Gotama teaches Dhamma
that has a causal basis,
not without a causal basis;
the recluse Gotama teaches Dhamma
that is convincing,
not unconvincing.'

This is the second thing, Udāyin,
for which disciples of mine revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, Udāyin,
disciples of mine admire the higher wisdom,
and the situation does not occur when they think:

'The recluse Gotama is wise;
he is endowed with the most excellent body of wisdom.

What is being spoken of here is the impulse a student might have to interrupt a conversation thinking his teacher will be making a fool of himself not correctly anticipating the line of an argument or that he might abstain from refuting an argument not understanding how to do so.

— p.p.

(Yet) he will not see (in advance)
a future way of speech^[26]
nor will he refute with Dhamma^[27]
a present opposed teaching
that is rightly (to be) refuted.'

What do you think about this, Udāyin?

Could disciples of mine,
knowing thus,
seeing thus,
interrupt a chance conversation?"

"No, revered sir."

"It is not I, Udāyin,
that expect instruction from disciples;
on the contrary,
it is the disciples themselves
that expect instruction from me.^[28]

So that, Udāyin,
the situation does not occur
when disciples [211] of mine
who admire the higher wisdom think:

'He would neither see (in advance)
a future way of speech
nor would he refute with Dhamma
a present opposed teaching
that is rightly (to be) refuted.'

This is the third thing, Udāyin,
for which disciples of mine revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, Udāyin,
those disciples of mine
who are beset by some anguish,
overwhelmed by anguish,
having approached me,
ask about the ariyan truth of anguish.

On being asked by them
about the ariyan truth of anguish,
I explain.

I bend my mind to the answer to their question.

And again, Udāyin,
those disciples of mine
who are beset by some anguish,
overwhelmed by anguish,
having approached me,
ask about about the ariyan truth of the uprising of anguish.

On being asked by them
about the ariyan truth of anguish,
I explain.

I bend my mind to the answer to their question.

And again, Udāyin,
those disciples of mine
who are beset by some anguish,
overwhelmed by anguish,
having approached me,
ask about about the ariyan truth of the stopping of anguish.

On being asked by them
about the ariyan truth of anguish,
I explain.

I bend my mind to the answer to their question.

And again, Udāyin,
those disciples of mine
who are beset by some anguish,
overwhelmed by anguish,
having approached me,
ask about about the ariyan truth of the course leading to the stopping of anguish.

On being asked by them
about the ariyan truth leading to the stopping of anguish,
I explain.

I bend my mind to the answer to their question.

This is the fourth thing, Udāyin,
for which disciples of mine revere,
respect,
esteem
and honour me and,
revering and respecting,
live in dependence.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the four applications of mindfulness.^[29]

Herein, Udāyin,
a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body,
ardent,
clearly conscious (of it),
mindful (of it),
so as to control the covetousness and dejection in the world.

He fares along contemplating the feelings in the feelings,
ardent,
clearly conscious (of it),
mindful (of it),
so as to control the covetousness and dejection in the world.

He fares along contemplating the mind in the mind,
ardent,
clearly conscious (of it),
mindful (of it),
so as to control the covetousness and dejection in the world.

He fares along contemplating mental objects in mental objects,
ardent,
clearly conscious (of it),
mindful (of it),
so as to control the covetousness and dejection in the world.

As to this,
many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.^[30]

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the four right strivings.^[31]

Herein, Udāyin,
a monk generates desire,
he endeavours,
stirs up energy,
exerts his mind
and strives for the non-arising
of evil unskilled states of mind
that have not arisen;

he generates desire,
he endeavours,
stirs up energy,
exerts his mind
and strives for the getting rid [212] of evil unskilled states of mind
that have arisen;

he generates desire,
he endeavours,
stirs up energy,
exerts his mind
and strives for the arising of skilled states of mind
that have not arisen;

he generates desire,
he endeavours,
stirs up energy,
exerts his mind
and strives for the maintenance,
preservation,
increase,
maturity,
development
and completion
of skilled states of mind
that have arisen.

As to this,
many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the four bases of psychic power.^[32]

Herein, Udāyin,
a monk cultivates the basis of psychic power
that is possessed of concentration of intention
with activities of striving;

he cultivates the basis of psychic power
that is possessed of concentration of energy
with activities of striving;

he cultivates the basis of psychic power
that is possessed of concentration of consciousness
with activities of striving;

he cultivates the basis of psychic power
that is possessed of concentration of investigation
with activities of striving.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the five controlling faculties.^[33]

Herein,Udāyin,
a monk develops the controlling faculty of faith,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the controlling faculty of energy,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the controlling faculty of mindfulness,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the controlling faculty of concentration,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the controlling faculty of wisdom,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the five powers.

Herein, Udāyin,
a monk develops the power of faith,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the power of energy,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the power of mindfulness,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the power of concentration,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening;

he develops the power of wisdom,
leading to tranquillity,
leading to awakening.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the seven limbs [213] of awakening.^[34]

Herein, Udāyin, a monk develops mindfulness as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation;

he develops investigation of Dhamma as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation;

he develops energy as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation;

he develops rapture as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation;

he develops serenity as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation;

he develops concentration as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation;

he develops even-mindedness as a limb of awakening
and which is dependent on aloofness,
dependent on dispassion,
dependent on stopping,
ending in renunciation.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the ariyan eightfold Way.

Herein, Udāyin, a monk
develops perfect view,
he develops perfect intention,
he develops perfect speech,
he develops perfect action,
he develops perfect mode of livelihood,
he develops perfect endeavour,
he develops perfect mindfulness,
he develops perfect concentration.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the eight Deliverances.^[35]

Being in the fine-material sphere,
he sees material shapes;
this is the first deliverance.

Not perceiving material shape internally
he sees external material shapes;
this is the second deliverance.

By thinking of the Fair,^[36] he is intent on it;
this is the third deliverance.

By passing quite beyond perceptions of material shapes,
by the going down of perceptions of sensory reactions,
by not attending to perceptions of variety,
thinking:

'Ether is unending'

entering on the plane of infinite ether,
he abides in it;
this is the fourth deliverance.

By passing quite beyond the plane of infinite ether,
thinking:

'Consciousness is unending,'

entering on the plane of infinite consciousness,
he abides in it;
this is the fifth deliverance.

By passing quite beyond the plane of infinite consciousness,
thinking:

'There is not anything,'

entering on the plane of no-thing,
he abides in it;
this is the sixth deliverance.

By passing quite beyond the plane of no-thing,
entering on the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception,
he abides in it;
this is the seventh deliverance.

By passing quite beyond the plane of neithcr-perception-nor-non-perception,
entering on the stopping of perception and feeling,
he abides in it;
this is the eighth deliverance.

[214] As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the eight spheres of mastery.^[37]

Perceiving material shape internally,
one sees external material shapes,
small,
comely,
ugly,
and he is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see';

this is the first sphere of mastery.

Perceiving material shape internally,
another sees external material shapes,
illimitable,
comely,
ugly,
and he is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see';

this is the second sphere of mastery.

Not perceiving material shape internally,
another sees external material shapes,
small,
comely,
ugly,
and he is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see';

this is the third sphere of mastery.

Not perceiving material shape internally,
another sees external material shapes,
illimitable,
comely,
ugly,
and he is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see';

this is the fourth sphere of mastery.

Not perceiving material shape internally,
another sees external material shapes that are blue-green,^[38]
blue-green in colour,
blue-green in appearance,
reflecting blue-green.

As the flax blossom is blue-green,
blue-green in colour,
blue-green in appearance,
reflecting blue-green;
or again, as that fine muslin of Benares,
of delicate finish on both sides,
is blue-green
blue-green in colour,
blue-green in appearance,
reflecting blue-green,
even so anyone who,
not perceiving material shape internally,
sees external material shapes that are blue-green,
blue-green in colour,
blue-green in appearance,
reflecting blue-green,
is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see'

this is the fifth sphere of mastery.

Not perceiving material shape internally,
another sees external material shapes that are yellow,
yellow in colour,
yellow in appearance,
reflecting yellow.

As the kaṇṇikāra blossom is yellow,
yellow in colour,
yellow in appearance,
reflecting yellow,
or again, as that fine muslin of Benares,
of delicate finish on both sides,
is yellow,
yellow in colour,
yellow in appearance,
reflecting yellow,
even so anyone who,
not perceiving material shape internally,
sees external material shapes that are
yellow,
yellow in colour,
yellow in appearance,
reflecting yellow,
is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see'

this is the sixth sphere of mastery.

Not perceiving material shape inter- [215] nally,
another sees external material shapes that are red,
red in colour,
red in appearance,
reflecting red.

As the bandhujīvaka blossom is red,
red in colour,
red in appearance,
reflecting red
or again, as that fine muslin of Benares,
of delicate finish on both sides,
is red,
red in colour,
red in appearance,
reflecting red
even so anyone who,
not perceiving material shape internally,
sees external material shapes that are
red,
red in colour,
red in appearance,
reflecting red,
is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see'

this is the seventh sphere of mastery.

Not perceiving material shape internally,
another sees external material shapes that are white,
white in colour,
white in appearance,
reflecting white.

As the morning star is white,
white in colour,
white in appearance,
reflecting white,
or again, as that fine muslin of Benares,
of delicate finish on both sides,
is white,
white in colour,
white in appearance,
reflecting white,
even so anyone who,
not perceiving material shape internally,
sees external material shapes
that are white,
white in colour,
white in appearance,
reflecting white,
is one perceiving thus:

'Having mastered them,
I know, I see';

this is the eighth sphere of mastery.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the ten spheres of the devices.^[39]

One is aware of the earth-device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the water-device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the fire-device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the wind-device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the blue-green device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the yellow device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the red device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the white device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the space device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable;

another is aware of the consciousness device
above,
below,
across,
undivided,
illimitable.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
develop the four meditations.

Herein, Udāyin, a monk, aloof from pleasures of the senses,
aloof from unskilled states of mind,
enters and abides in the first meditation
which is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought,
is born of aloofness,
and is rapturous and joyful.

He drenches,^[40]
saturates,
permeates,
suffuses
this very body
with the rapture and joy
that are born of aloofness;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with the rapture and joy
that are [216] born of aloofness.

Udāyin, as a skilled bath-attendant or his apprentice,
having sprinkled bath-powder into a bronze vessel,
might knead it together with drops of water
until the ball of lather has taken up moisture,
is drenched with moisture,
suffused with moisture
inside and out,
but there is no oozing -
even so, Udāyin, does a monk
drench,
saturate,
permeate,
suffuse
this very body
with the rapture and joy
that are born of aloofness;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with the rapture and joy
that are born of aloofness.

And again, Udāyin, a monk, by allaying initial and discursive thought,
with the mind subjectively tranquillised
and fixed on one point,
enters on and abides in
the second meditation
which is devoid of initial and discursive thought,
is born of concentration
and is rapturous and joyful.

He drenches,
saturates,
permeates,
suffuses
this very body
with the rapture and joy
that are born of concentration;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with the rapture and joy
that are born of concentration.

Udāyin, as a pool of water
with water welling up within it,
but which has no inlet for water from the eastern side,
no inlet for water from the western side,
no inlet for water from the northern side,
no inlet for water from the southern side,
and even if the god did not send down showers upon it
from time to time,
yet a current of cool water
having welled up from that pool
would drench,
saturate,
permeate,
suffuse
that pool with cool water;
there would be no part of that pool
that was not suffused with cool water.

Even so, Udāyin, does a monk
drench,
saturate,
permeate,
suffuse
this very body
with the rapture and joy
that are born of concentration;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with the rapture and joy
that are born of concentration.

And again, Udāyin, a monk
by the fading out of rapture,
dwells with equanimity,
attentive and clearly conscious
and experiences in his person
that joy of which the ariyans say:

'Joyful lives he
who has equanimity
and is mindful,'

and he enters on and abides in
the third meditation.

He drenches,
saturates,
permeates,
suffuses
this very body
with the joy that has no rapture;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with the joy that has no rapture.

As in a pond of white lotuses
or a pond of red lotuses
or a pond of blue lotuses,
some white lotuses
or red lotuses
or blue lotuses
are born in the water,
grow up in the water,
never rising above the surface
but flourishing beneath it -
these from their roots to their tips
are drenched,
saturated,
permeated,
suffused
by cool water.

Even so, Udāyin, a monk
drenches,
saturates,
permeates,
suffuses
this very body
with the joy that has no rapture;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with the joy that has no rapture.

And again, Udāyin, a monk
by getting rid of joy
and by getting rid of anguish,
by the going down
of his former pleasures and sorrows,
enters on and abides in
the fourth meditation
which has neither anguish nor joy,
and which is entirely purified
by equanimity and mindfulness.

He, having suffused this very body
with a mind that is [217] utterly pure,
utterly clean,
comes to be sitting down;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused
with a mind that is utterly pure,
utterly clean.

Udāyin, as a monk might be sitting down
who has clothed himself
including his head
with a white cloth,
no part of his whole body
would not be suffused
with the white cloth.

Even so, Udāyin, a monk,
having suffused this very body
with a mind that is utterly pure,
utterly clean,
comes to be sitting down;
there is no part of his whole body
that is not suffused by a mind
that is utterly pure,
utterly clean.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine comprehend thus:

'This body of mine,
having material shape,
made of the four great elements,
originated from mother and father,
nourished on gruel and sour milk,
is of a nature to be constantly rubbed away,
pounded away,
broken up
and scattered,^[41]
but this consciousness of mine is fastened there,
bound there.^[42]

Udāyin, as an emerald jewel,^[43]
of lovely water,
well cut into eight facets,
translucent,
flawless,
having all good qualities,
might be strung on a thread,
blue-green
or yellow
or red
or white
or orange-coloured;
and a man with vision,
having put it in his hand,
might reflect:

'This emerald jewel
of lovely water,
well cut into eight facets,
translucent,
flawless,
having all good qualities,
might be strung on a thread,
blue-green
or yellow
or red
or white
or orange-coloured.'

Even so, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine know^[44] thus:

'This body of mine,
having material shape,
made of the four great elements,
originated from mother and father,
nourished on gruel and sour milk,
is of a nature to be constantly rubbed away,
pounded away,
broken up
and scattered,
but this consciousness^[45] of mine is fastened there,
bound there.'

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
from this body
(mentally) produce (another) body,
having material shape,
mind-made,^[46]
having all its major and minor parts,
not deficient in any sense-organ.^[47]

As, Udāyin,
a man might draw an arrow from a reed^[48]
and might think [218] thus:

'This is the reed,
this the arrow,
the reed is one thing,
the arrow another;
it is from the reed
that the arrow has been drawn';

or again, Udāyin,
as a man might draw a sword from the scabbard
and might think thus:

'This is the sword,
this the scabbard,
the sword is one thing,
the scabbard another;
it is from the scabbard
that the sword has been drawn';

or again, Udāyin,
as a man might take a snake out of the slough
and might think thus:

'This is the snake,
this the slough,
the snake is one thing,
the slough another;
it is from the slough
that the snake has been taken out.'

Even so, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which my disciples
from this body
(mentally) produce (another) body,
having material shape,
mind-made,
having all its major and minor parts,
not deficient in any sense-organ.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
experience the various forms of psychic power;^[49]

having been one they become manifold;
having been manifold they become one;

manifest or invisible
they go unhindered through a wall,
through a rampart,
through a mountain
as if through air;

they plunge into the ground
and up again
as if in water;

they walk upon the water
without parting it
as if on the ground;

sitting cross-legged
they travel through the air
like a bird on the wing;

and with their hands
they rub and stroke this moon and sun
which are of such power and majesty,

and even as far as the Brahma-world
they have power with the person.

As, Udāyin,
a skilled potter
or potter's apprentice
from properly prepared clay
could make whatever shaped clay vessel he wished;

or as a skilled ivory-worker
or ivory-worker's apprentice
from properly prepared ivory
could make whatever shaped ivory vessel he wished;

or as a skilled goldsmith
or goldsmith's apprentice
from properly prepared gold
could make whatever shaped gold vessel he wished -

even so, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
experience the various forms of psychic power;

having been one they become manifold;
having been manifold they become one;

manifest or invisible
they go unhindered through a wall,
through a rampart,
through a mountain
as if through air;

they plunge into the ground
and up again
as if in water;

they walk upon the water
without parting it
as if on the ground;

sitting cross-legged
they travel through the air
like a bird on the wing;

and with their hands
they rub and stroke this moon and sun
which are of such power and majesty,

and even as far as the Brahma-world
[219] they have power with the person.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
through the purified deva-element of hearing
surpassing that of men,
hear both sounds;
the deva-like and the human,
those that are distant
and those that are near.

As, Udāyin,
a powerful conch-blower could,
without trouble,
inform the four quarters,
even so, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
through the purified deva-element of hearing
surpassing that of men,
hear both sounds;
the deva-like and the human,
those that are distant
and those that are near.

As to this, many of my disciples abide
attained to accomplishment
and to going beyond through super-knowledge.

And again, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
comprehend with the mind
the minds of other beings,
of other individualsi;^[50]

they comprehend the mind with attachment
as a mind with attachment;

they comprehend the mind without attachment
as a mind without attachment;

they comprehend the mind with aversion
as a mind with aversion;

they comprehend the mind without aversion
as a mind without aversion

they comprehend the mind with confusion
as a mind with confusion

they comprehend the mind without confusion
as a mind without confusion

they comprehend the mind that is contracted
as a mind that is contracted

they comprehend the mind that is distracted
as a mind that is distracted

they comprehend the mind that has become great
as a mind that has become great

they comprehend the mind that has not become great
as a mind that has not become great

they comprehend the mind with (some other mental state) superior to it
as a mind with (some other mental state) superior to it

they comprehend the mind with no (other mental state) superior to it
as a mind with no (other mental state) superior to it.

they comprehend the mind that is composed
as a mind that is composed

they comprehend the mind that is not composed
as a mind that is not composed

they comprehend the mind that is freed
as a mind that is freed

they comprehend the mind that is not freed
as a mind that is not freed.

Udāyin, it is like a woman or a man,
young and of tender years,
fond of adornment,
who,
regarding the reflection
of (her or his) own face
in a perfectly pure and perfectly clean mirror
or in a bowl of clear water
would, if it had a mole on it,
know that it had,
and if not,
would know that it had not.^[51]

Even so, Udāyin,
a course has been pointed out by me for disciples,
practising which disciples of mine
comprehend with the [220] mind
the mind of other beings,
of other individuals;