Saṃyutta Nikāya
4. Saḷāyatana Vagga
44. Avyākata Saṃyutta
The Book of the Kindred Sayings
4. The Book Called the Saḷāyatana-Vagga
Containing Kindred Sayings on the 'Six-Fold Sphere' of Sense and Other Subjects
44. Kindred Sayings about the Unrevealed[1]
Sutta 1
Khemā Therī Suttaṃ
Sister Khemā the Elder[2]
Translated by F. L. Woodward
Edited by Mrs. Rhys Davids
Copyright The Pali Text Society
Commercial Rights Reserved
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[1][than][bodh] Thus have I heard:
The Exalted One was once staying near Sāvatthī,
at Jeta Grove, in Anāthapiṇḍika's Park.
Now on that occasion the sister Khemā,
after going her rounds among the Kosalans,
took up her quarters at Toraṇavatthu,
between Sāvatthī and Sāketa.[3]
Now the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala was journeying from Sāketa to Sāvatthī,
and midway between Sāketa and Sāvatthī
he put up for one night at Toraṇavatthu.
Then the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala called a certain man and said:
"Come thou, good fellow!
Find out some recluse or brahmin
such that I can wait upon[4] him to-day."
"Even so, your majesty,"
said that man in reply to the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala,
and after wandering through all Toraṇavatthu
he saw not anyone,
either recluse or brahmin,
on whom the rājah Pasenadi might wait.
Then that man saw the sister Khemā,
who had come [266] to reside at Toraṇavatthu.
And on seeing her
he went back to the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala, and said: —
"Your majesty, there is no recluse or brahmin in Toranavattthu
such that your majesty can wait upon him.
But your majesty,
there is a sister named Khemā,
a woman disciple of that Exalted One,
who is Arahant,
an All-enlightened One.
Now of this lady a lovely rumor has gone abroad,
that she is sage,
accomplished,
shrewd,
widely learned,
a brilliant talker,[5]
of goodly ready wit.
Let your majesty wait upon her."
So the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala
went to visit the sister Khemā,
and on coming to her
saluted and sat down at one side.
So seated he said to her: —
"How say you, lady?
Does the Tathāgata exist after death?"[6]
"That the Tathāgata exists after death, maharājah,
is not revealed by the Exalted One."
"How say you, lady?
So the Tathāgata does not exist after death."
"That also, maharājah,
is not revealed by the Exalted One."
"What then, lady?
Does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?"
"That also, maharājah,
is not revealed by the Exalted One."
"Then, lady,
the Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death."
"That also, maharājah,
is not revealed by the Exalted one."
§
"How then, lady?
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata exist after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by the Exalted One.'
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata not exist after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by the Exalted One.'
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by the Exalted One.'
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by the Exalted One.'
Pray, lady, what is the reason,
what is the cause
why this thing is not revealed by the Exalted One?"
"Now in this matter, maharājah,
I will question you.
Do you reply as you think fit.
Now how say you, maharājah?
[267] Have you some accountant,
some ready-reckoner or calculator,[7]
able to count the sand in Ganges, thus:
'There are so many thousand grains,
or so many hundreds of thousands of grains of sand?'"
"No indeed, lady."
"Then have you some accountant,
ready-reckoner or calculator,
able to reckon the water in the mighty ocean, thus:
'There are so many gallons[8] of water,
so many hundred,
so many thousand,
so many hundreds of thousand gallons of water?'"
"No indeed, lady."
"How is that?"
"Mighty is the ocean, lady,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable."[9]
"Even so, maharājah,
if one should try to define the Tathāgata
by his bodily form,
that bodily form of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as body, maharājah,
is the Tathāgata.
He is deep,
boundless,
unfathomable,
just like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.[10]
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
[268] If one should try to define the Tathāgata by feeling,
— that feeling of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as feeling is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by perception,
— that perception of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as perception is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by the activities (sankhara),
— those activities of the Tathāgata are abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as the activities is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by consciousness,
— that consciousness of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as consciousness is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply."
Then the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala
was delighted with the words of the sister Khemā,
and took pleasure therein.
And he rose from his seat,
saluted her by the right and went away.
§
Now on another occasion
the rājah . . .
went to visit the Exalted One,
and on coming to him
saluted him and sat down at one side.
So seated he said to the Exalted One: —
"Pray, lord, does the Tathāgata exist after death?"
"Not revealed by me, maharājah,
is this matter."
"Then, lord, the Tathāgata does not exist after death."
"That also, maharājah,
is not revealed by me."
"Then, lord, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?"
"That also, maharājah,
is not revealed by me."
"Then, lord, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not-exist after death?"
"That also, maharājah,
is not revealed by me."
■
'How then, lord?
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata exist after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by me.'
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata not exist after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by me.'
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by me.'
When asked, 'Does the Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death?'
you reply,
'That is not revealed by me.'
■
Pray, lord, what is the reason,
what is the cause
why this thing is not revealed by the Exalted One?'
'Now, maharājah, I will question you.
Do you reply as you think fit.
Have you some accountant,
some ready-reckoner or calculator,
able to count the sand in Ganges, thus:
'There are so many thousand grains,
or so many hundreds of thousands of grains of sand?'"
"No indeed, lord."
"Then have you some accountant,
ready-reckoner or calculator,
able to reckon the water in the mighty ocean, thus:
'There are so many gallons of water,
so many hundred,
so many thousand,
so many hundreds of thousand gallons of water?'"
"No indeed, lord."
"How is that?"
"Mighty is the ocean, lord,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable."
■
"Even so, maharājah,
if one should try to define the Tathāgata
by his bodily form,
that bodily form of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as body, maharājah,
is the Tathāgata.
He is deep,
boundless,
unfathomable,
just like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by feeling,
— that feeling of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as feeling is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by perception,
— that perception of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as perception is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by the activities,
— those activities of the Tathāgata are abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as the activities is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply.
■
If one should try to define the Tathāgata by consciousness,
— that consciousness of the Tathāgata is abandoned,
cut down at the root,
made like a palm-tree stump,
made something that is not,
made of a nature not to spring up again in future time.
Set free from reckoning as consciousness is the Tathāgata, maharājah,
deep,
boundless,
unfathomable
like the mighty ocean.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata both exists and exists not after death,'
does not apply.
To say, 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor not-exists after death,'
does not apply."
§
"Wonderful, lord!
Strange it is, lord,
how the explanation both of Master and disciple,
both in spirit and in letter,
will agree, will harmonize,
will not be inconsistent,[11]
— that is, in any word about the highest.[12]
On a certain occasion, lord,
I went to visit the sister Khemā,
and asked her the meaning of this matter,
and she gave me the meaning in the very words,
in the very syllables
used by [269] the Exalted One.
Wonderful, lord!
Strange it is, lord,
how the explanation both of Master and disciple
will agree, will harmonize,
in spirit and in letter,
how they will not be inconsistent,
— that is, in any word about the highest.
Well, lord, now we must be going.
We are busy folk.
We have many things to do."
"Do now what you think it time for, maharājah."
Thereupon the rājah Pasenadi of Kosala
was delighted with the words of the Exalted One
and welcomed them.
And he rose from his seat,
saluted the Exalted One by the right and went away.
[1] Avyākata.
[2] For the Sister Khemā see Psalms of the Sisters, p. 81 ff. As a slave-girl in the time of the Buddha Padumuttara, she renounced the world and aspired to be a disciple of a future Buddha, a wish that was fulfilled under the Buddhas Vipassi, Kakusandha, Koṇāgamana, Kassapa, and Gotama. In this last birth she was wife of the rājah Bimbisāra, and of great beauty. Pride in this was destroyed in her by the Master, who conjured up a vision of beauty decaying. She was convinced, entered the Order, and ultimately became Arahant. She was ranked first in insight by the Master (as mahāpaññā) in the list of 'great ones' at A. i, 25; AA. i. 342. Cf. K.S. ii, 160.
[3] Cf. Buddhist India, p. 40.
[4] Payirupāseyyaṇ, lit. 'sit beside as a teacher.'
[5] Citta-kathī.
[6] For this stock question see K.S. ii, 150; iii, 93 ff., 172.
[7] Gaṇaka, muddika, sankhāyaka. Expl. by Comy. (here and) on D. i, 51. He says of them: (a) A faultless reckoner. (b) One skilled in interpreting finger-signs (is this palmistry or counting on the fingers?). (c) A recokoner of groups of numbers. Rhys Davids trans. (b) 'conveyancer.' Is it 'a reader of symbolic gestures'? See in this connexion Bhikkhu Ñaṇtiloka's Die Fragen des Milindo (Leipzig), note to p. 289, which supports this view. See Udāna Comy., 205, on Ud. iii, 9, where these arts are reckoned among the sippāni, arts and sciences. As an example: 'On looking at a tree one could tell at a glance the number of leaves on it.'
[8] Āṭhaka, a measure. Four patthā = one āṭhaka: four āṭhakā = one doṇa (cauldron or trough).
[9] Gambhīra, '84,000 yojanas in depth.' Comy.
[10] Na upeti = 'na yujjati (haud idoneum).' Comy.
Addenda to n. 1, p. 269 (=279), text p. 379.
Text reads saṇsandissati, smessati, no virodhayissati (v.ll. vibhāyissati, vihāyissati). At A. v, 320, in the same context, text reads viggahissati (v.l. vigayhissati), which Comy. ad loc. explains as na virujjhissati.
Our Comy., however, reads here vibhāyissati (with comment na viruddhaṇ saddaṇ bhavissati). I would read viggahissati (non separabitur) in both texts. The meaning in any case is "there will be found no discrepancy."
Non separabitur: not separate
— p.p.
[11] The passage occurs at A. v, 320. Text and Comy. differ here. See Appendix for a discussion of the reading.
[12] Agga-padasmiṇ. AA. on A. v. 320, '= nibbāne.'
